EMW

How about death bed conversions? People who decide they were wrong but don't have the chance to do good works? If works are the deciding factor those people will go to hell or spend a whole lot of time in purgatory.

I don't want to get into this particular debate, I'm just throwing that out for discussion.

havent you ever heard the story of the prodigal son???
he was a bad boy. went out with prostitutes, used up allll his fathers money, left his family to go out and party in the city...im just suming up the story...but when he came back home after all that money had been spent and he was sorry his dad took him back in open arms.
moral of the story is that its NEVER TOO LATE to turn to jesus, even on your death bed.

That question was directed at NS.

That question was directed at NS.

Oh. Thought you had that one aimed at Brad!

It has always been taught where I come from that there is a worth to a person. People who always do the right thing are great, but to Jesus, the sinners are of utmost importance. Just like in the prodigal son, the celebration when the sinner comes back to Jesus is greater, for there is more reason to celebrate.

I think that if someone has never done good works, but at the end honestly are sorry for what they've done and change will probably make it into heaven after going through purgatory.

Reply to Neighborhood Studios:

1) You asked how I did not know that Lewis was not divinely inspired-I definitely have no idea, and neither to you. There is absolutely no basis to determine this. This is why we should never take man's word as a basis or support for what we believe--never and no one. If we were to improperly open that door, then any man's word could be viewed as divinely inspired by those who choose. We can use the words of other people to assist us in explaining or understanding Scripture, that is, they walk us through Scriptures, and, after their explanation, we agree that what they say makes biblical sense. There is only one, and only one, "religious" book that can be proven to be God's Word (through prophecy as discussed previously, and explained in detail in the Bible study "Prophecy" at FoundationsForOurFaith.com" And, because all other religious books are in contradiction to the Bible, we then know that they are false, or at least not inspired by God. It would be impossible to ever truly find the truth if we based our search on the words of men, and not the infallible and inerrant Word of God. Such a search, that is, a search based on differing words and opinions of men, would result in an endless circle of debate and discussion.

2) You mentioned a quote by four denominational leaders that differences in belief are not based on denominational differences, but on differences of opinion of individual Christians--are you kidding, do you really believe those words. Such a comment, and please forgive my directness, is based in absolute ignorance of the various denominational beliefs and is ridiculous. This is a great example of why we should never take the words of mere men just at face value, no matter what their background. Just to mention a few quick denominational differences:
a) Security of our salvation: some denominations believe you can lose your salvation and some believe you cannot lose it.
b) Faith vs. works: some denominations believe you are saved by faith alone, and some believe you must have faith and works together.
c) Specialness of denomination: There are some denominations that believe there's is the special one, and to be saved you must follow their beliefs

3) You said that you were not wanting to know what I believe, but what I do not believe. The list of what I don't believe, as with many people, is very long, and would not serve a purpose in listing. However, I will address any particular belief questions of mine that you ask. Also, if you read back in my comments in this forum, and in various other forums on God on this website, you will gain a fairly good understanding of some areas of belief in which I do not believe. However, to give a short list of those beliefs with which I disagree:
- Works has nothing to do with salvation
- There is no way to heaven except through Jesus Christ
- Creation is scientific and evolution is contrary to all science
- The Bible is the only true Word of God and is authenticated based on the prophecies contained within--I don't believe in any other religious book
- There is only one true God, that of the Bible--I do not believe in any other god of any other religion
- Christianity is the only true religion, authenticated by God's Word (all other religions are in contradiction to the Bible)--I do not believe in any other religion, and believe them all to be false and deceiving

Thanks for the questions--look forward to future discussion

I'll repeat:

"But Brad,

where do you stand?

I think you mentioned this in a different topic, but where are you coming from? Are your arguments based off of your personal spiritual life, or do you follow a denomination? Do the ideals you profess come from a specific denomination, or is it just what you believe from reading the Bible?"

And I would like to hear your rebuttal from Wed Aug 28th's reply to your opinion on church teaching.

I'll respond to your latest post tomorrow.

OK, here's what I have for my "official" response

1) You say that we should NEVER take man's word as a basis or support for what we believe.

What about religious education books? These are made for every denomination to teach children and teens about their faith - and we take what is written to be true.

We also believe what the pope and other Church officials say to be true - if we don't believe anyone, refusing to listen to others, then we will never move forward.

But you do take the word of whomever wrote the foundations of our faith website to be true. To me this is because what the author has written sounds good with what you believe, and has handy scripture references to back up their opinions. However, the author is completely anonymous, with no address or organization backing up what is written - indeed, no contact save for a free AOL email account!

This all comes down to my basic question for you: Can we, and don't we, base our faith on the words of man, because man's words are based on the Bible, based on their interpretations? And this comes back to Mere Christianity. The book is based off of the author's interpretations of the faith, and I do not see any contradictions with my Church's teachings. Yet you say that it is all wrong - it sounds nice and pretty, but it is wrong, only because it is not the Bible.

2)The man sent out his book to four denominations, and they had no problem with it as it was written. Do you really think C.S. Lewis would write a blatant lie?

Every denomination has set teachings. However, every Catholic I know has disagreements with a couple of Church teachings, or policy. Just about everyone will say that they don't believe this particular thing, or that, but they are still practicing Catholics in the faith. And the same is true for all denominations. Another example: We are all Americans. I may not believe that the war in Iraq is right, and some others may, and we might all have differences in opinion on how America deals with certain issues, but we are still Americans. We aren't banned from America or exiled from society because we don't agree with certain things - and the same is true for religion, for the most part. That's how I, and many others, see it.

3) I do want to know what you DO believe, not what you are against. Are you part of a denomination, Brad, or are you just a Christian? Do your beliefs stem from the teachings of a particular group, or just your personal interpretations based on your own faith journey?

Looking forward to your reply!