EMW

So the verse "For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God" has no meaning?

That's why there is reconciliation, and open acceptance by the Church.

So Catholicism, is changing the Bible like mormans do.

Not changing the Bible at all. The above posts are my personal interpretation.

Just be careful, I want to clear this up: I said they MIGHT be saved, not WILL be saved.

WILL have the opportunity to change their ways and be saved. I believe that God is one that is forgiving and kind, not one that will condemn everyone save for Catholics or even Christians for that matter. I bet that everyone will have a one-on-one with God in the end, and He'll figure out your fate based upon your decisions in life.

envisageworks wrote:Because he said nothing about it turning into his body once we drank it. He said that the bread he was holding was his body, and it obviously wasn't. He was speaking symbolical. What he meant by taking a part of his body, was that we need to take him in. Like bread, we need him every day to function, he becomes a part of us and our body. His statement wasn't proclaiming that communion actually turns into his flesh. For one, that would be weird, and secondly, there is no point in this. I can see what he meant by us eating his body, but if he was speaking literally, it wouldn't have as much meaning at all.

but in the bible it specifically said "this IS my body"
not this is a symbol of my body. or this represents my body

and how you said it "would be wierd" its pretty creepy to rise from the dead but he did that too.

Yes, he did say that, but it obviously wasn't, thus he was speaking symbolically. And even if it was his body, he said nothing about future bread later turning into his body.

The verse needs to be taken into context. Again, it would mean nothing if it was actually his body. I can think of a million examples that can be taken literally, but should not be taken literally.

Jesus would rebuild the temple. He never physically rebuilt it, he built up a spiritual kingdom.

So yeah, try the Blue Letter Bible, it should give you some good insight to what it means.

Wow this has become a very popular debate.

I know, you should join.

envisageworks wrote:Yes, he did say that, but it obviously wasn't, thus he was speaking symbolically. And even if it was his body, he said nothing about future bread later turning into his body.

The verse needs to be taken into context. Again, it would mean nothing if it was actually his body. I can think of a million examples that can be taken literally, but should not be taken literally.

Jesus would rebuild the temple. He never physically rebuilt it, he built up a spiritual kingdom.

So yeah, try the Blue Letter Bible, it should give you some good insight to what it means.

i understand why you would think that it shouldnt be taken literaly. and one of the things that makes me believe that the eucharist is truly His body is my trip to STUEBENVILLE ON THE BAYOU. stuebenville is this retreat my church went on a couple weeks ago with 3100 catholic teenagers.
catholics have this thing called adoration. idk if you have ever heard of it. but anyway its were the eucharist is displayed in a monsterence (sp?) and it is custom to just kneel and pray. well at stuebenville there are 3100 catholic teen all surronding the eucharist praying.
and then the most miracoulous thing happens. i was kneeling praying and i just started crying. and all around me other people were crying. and some people fainted and others screamed and some even laughed histaricaly. it was the scariest, most beautiful thing i have ever been through.
the reason for all of that is that everyone knew jesus was truly the eucharist. i knew then that He is really there and that is His body.


and the reason

this is something neat to look up.
the EUCHARISTIC MIRACLE OF 1998 it took place in Betania, Venezuela on December 8th, 1991 (The Feast of the Immaculate Conception) during the celebration of the Holy Mass at midnight.

a priest was doubting his faith at that mass. he said the eucharistic rights and broke the bread. then all of a sudden the host started bleeding. as if it was a wound.

check it out. there is some pictures and video footage...i think even on youtube...of the bleeding eucharist.

EUCHARISTIC MIRACLE OF 1998

Hahaha. Yeah. You where experiencing the Holy Sprit Baby. I love it.

I don't really know what that amazing experience had to do with eating Jesus' actual body, but yeah, that is absolutely amazing! I would love to go to that retreat sometime.

And find me that footage.

I admit I did not read all 7 pages of this. I'm sure it was all great and it's not that I didn't have the time, It's just that I'm lazy.
Now that that's out of the way

Alison, are you saying that because "The Bible" says that you are eating the actual body of christ and drinking the actual blood of christ, you are a cannibal and a vampire?? Not to mention in order to be eaten literally for all these years, jesus must have been fricken huge.

Alison, are you saying that because "The Bible" says that you are eating the actual body of christ and drinking the actual blood of christ, you are a cannibal and a vampire?? Not to mention in order to be eaten literally for all these years, jesus must have been fricken huge.

Cannibalism is when one individual physically eats the human flesh off of another’s body. Catholic or not, the words in John 6 do sound cannibalistic. Even a Fundamentalist would have to say that he eats the flesh of Christ and drinks his blood in a symbolic manner so as to concur with the passage. By the same allowance, Catholics eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood in a sacramental way. Neither the Protestant nor the Catholic appears to be doing anything cannibalistic, though.

It would have been cannibalism is if a disciple two thousand years ago had tried literally to eat Jesus by sinking his teeth into his arm. Now that our Lord is in heaven with a glorified body and made present under the appearance of bread in the Eucharist, cannibalism is not possible.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0103sbs.asp

samuelrj wrote:I admit I did not read all 7 pages of this. I'm sure it was all great and it's not that I didn't have the time, It's just that I'm lazy.
Now that that's out of the way

Alison, are you saying that because "The Bible" says that you are eating the actual body of christ and drinking the actual blood of christ, you are a cannibal and a vampire?? Not to mention in order to be eaten literally for all these years, jesus must have been fricken huge.

sorry but did you read what you wrote after you wrote it? cuz thats pretty far fetched arguement... i mean is that the best you got?

and connor you can just type in eucharistic miracle of 1998 into youtube and it should be there.

I could do better, like the pointlessness of prayer or how believing in a catholic god is just as logical as believing in the invisible pink unicorn, or how catholicism, christianity and judaism rely on circular logic which proves nothing whatsoever but seems to make sense until you actually think about it, but I felt that those arguments did not refer to the case at hand. The whole cannibal vampire thing made me wonder so I thought I might ask.

samuelrj wrote:I could do better, like the pointlessness of prayer or how believing in a catholic god is just as logical as believing in the invisible pink unicorn, or how catholicism, christianity and judaism rely on circular logic which proves nothing whatsoever but seems to make sense until you actually think about it, but I felt that those arguments did not refer to the case at hand. The whole cannibal vampire thing made me wonder so I thought I might ask.

pointless prayer? that is not a valid arguement either. because there have been tests with cancer patients that those who pray for them recover faster and better than those who were not prayed for.
prayer is a way of not only just petitioning to god...but a way to just talk about normal life with god. prayer means to have a personal relationship with god. so no its not pointless.
and even if you ask something from god and it is not answered thats okay. because it doesnt mean that he isnt listening. it means that whatever you asked from him is not in his plan.

"was not in his plan"
that's where your argument gets illogical.

Think about it.

If you pray for something in gods plan, its gonna happen anyway so why bother praying?
If you pray for something that wasnt in his plan, its not gonna happen because god isnt gonna change his divine plan for you who he knew would ask that to beegin with.
If god wants something to happen he will make it happen. Whats the point of having a divine plan when some mortal can come along and f*** it all up?

So to sum this all up, prayer is just asking for something that may or may not be in his plan. If its in it, it will come true whether or not you pray for it. If its not in the plan, it wont come true whether you pray for it or not.



And that cancer research was tested by religious people who use a small sample size and do the test several times and use the test that most benefits them and deny the others. There are more reliable tests and they clearly show that praying does nothing.

samuelrj wrote:"was not in his plan"
that's where your argument gets illogical.

Think about it.

If you pray for something in gods plan, its gonna happen anyway so why bother praying?
If you pray for something that wasnt in his plan, its not gonna happen because god isnt gonna change his divine plan for you who he knew would ask that to beegin with.
If god wants something to happen he will make it happen. Whats the point of having a divine plan when some mortal can come along and f*** it all up?

So to sum this all up, prayer is just asking for something that may or may not be in his plan. If its in it, it will come true whether or not you pray for it. If its not in the plan, it wont come true whether you pray for it or not.



And that cancer research was tested by religious people who use a small sample size and do the test several times and use the test that most benefits them and deny the others. There are more reliable tests and they clearly show that praying does nothing.

. lets say you want a iphone for christmas from your parents. you would them for it. even though you know that it is really expensive and chances are that you wont get it. you still ask them for it. because ultimately its up to them whether you get the phone or not. but it doesnt hurt to ask.

same thing with prayer. besides prayer isnt about just asking for stuff. its about a personal relationship with god. and what harm can come out of that?