EMW

I never said that it was right to be an extremist. Where did you get that? All I'm saying is that the bible, which you follow, encourages that.

Are you saying that you pick and chose certain things out of the bible to best fit your lifestyle, because I don't think that your imaginary god likes that, what with all the smiting.

And sorry about the stalling posts. I had stuff to do and I wanted an answer. I was a bit frustrated and I said some thing I shouldn't have.

Certain things in life are meant to be taken literally, and figuratively. You have the make the right judgements about how things should be. In the 1600s witchcraft was punishable by death, but now that sort of thing is allowable at least.

Things that were OK thousands of years ago are obviously not going to be applicable in the present. And things that were accepted as true or right change over time. But you are debating based on what was accepted in the past, not adjusted for present times. Once you can zip up to the 21st century's interpretations we can move on!

Well surely your all knowing all seeing invisible lord would know that his book would become outdated and maybe he could have put a little side note saying something along the lines of "forget the stoning children part when it goes out of style"

samuelrj wrote:Wait. It makes more sense that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everybody every minute of every day who tells us to pray for something that will either happen or not happen regardless of what we do, and he will send us to eternal damnation if we sin which he created and he has given us no proof of his existence, though he loves us. Not to mention he knows who is going to hell before he makes them, yet he makes them anyway. And he is all loving. Plus the book that his people read and follow encourage death, destruction, stoning children, killing gays, killing those of other religions, and slavery. But of course, he still loves us.

OR

There is a story which people invented to explain unexplainable phenomenons but now that we can explain them, we dont need it anymore, but the people are so attached to this story because it gives them comfort and they grew up with it and are brainwashed to blindly follow it based on faith.

Let me rephrase that. You're asking me what is more likely, the improbable or the impossible. The improbable is always more likely than the impossible so I believe I was justified in my answer.

samuelrj wrote:Well surely your all knowing all seeing invisible lord would know that his book would become outdated and maybe he could have put a little side note saying something along the lines of "forget the stoning children part when it goes out of style"

Could you show me the stuff about stoning children? I'm not familiar with that part.

deuteronomy 21:18-21

and the impossible/improbable thing. It is impossible to walk on water. It is improbable that people exaggerated stories over the years.
Your argument can be turned both ways.

Well surely your all knowing all seeing invisible lord

If you will be using scripture to try to prove your points, then I refer you to the following to debate your skepticism:

24 One of the twelve disciples, Thomas (nicknamed the Twin),[c] was not with the others when Jesus came. 25 They told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “I won’t believe it unless I see the nail wounds in his hands, put my fingers into them, and place my hand into the wound in his side.”

26 Eight days later the disciples were together again, and this time Thomas was with them. The doors were locked; but suddenly, as before, Jesus was standing among them. “Peace be with you,” he said. 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”

28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

Do you need to see to believe? You can't see gravity, but it exists. Air is invisible, but I believe that it is around me. Do you believe in the universe? Does it exist, even though no one can comprehend it? Even today there are things beyond our understanding, but we still have faith.

and the impossible/improbable thing. It is impossible to walk on water.

That's what you say, because we don't have the science to do it yet. Who's to say that we can't solve that problem in 50 years as science progresses?

samuelrj wrote:deuteronomy 21:18-21

and the impossible/improbable thing. It is impossible to walk on water. It is improbable that people exaggerated stories over the years.
Your argument can be turned both ways.

True enough from your point of view, let's go back to Algebra, we will be studying probability and statistics. Both events are highly improbable, walking on water is impossible and so is creating a book so historically accurate and powerful that fits together so well by just making it up. Let's say, for example, that the probability is one over infinity for both events. Effectively impossible but the events are mutually exclusive so if one is true the other has to be false. Now we enter into the domain of limited information altering the probability. I have established responsive communication with God, therefore he exists. The second option does not allow for this date, it is therefore false and the probability is now zero. The first option allows for this data so however unlikely it is still possible. Highly improbable but still possible. So to me the first option is more probable than the second because I have data you don't. From your point of view the second is far more probable.

That verse about stoning children is only for the most extreme of circumstances. If he will not correct his ways after punishment and continues to be disruptive and drunk and will not pull his wait in the family farm (pretty much everyone was a farmer back then and they were in the desert so there wasn't much to go around.) If you are at the end of your rope, stone him. Yeah, they didn't exactly have prisons in a giant mobile camp so yeah, life sucked for them.

Do you need to see to believe? You can't see gravity, but it exists. Air is invisible, but I believe that it is around me. Do you believe in the universe?

Gravity i can feel because it's what keeps me on the ground. Air I am breathing right now. I cannot see them, but they can be proven. I can feel them too. I can physically feel them. Don't say that you can feel god unless he has physically touched you.

That's what you say, because we don't have the science to do it yet. Who's to say that we can't solve that problem in 50 years as science progresses?

Why science when god could do it in a snap?

Why science when god could do it in a snap?

Because you require scientific proof to accept something as true. I am trying to use science to prove my point, but you are using God and science alternatively to suit your arguments. There are some things that we just can't prove with science in 2008.

Gravity i can feel because it's what keeps me on the ground. Air I am breathing right now. I cannot see them, but they can be proven. I can feel them too.

How do you know that it is what keeps you on the ground? You are simply accepting the word of scientists as true without investigating for yourself - blindly following what has been deemed acceptable for years.

Can you see the universe? Surely you "believe" that it exists for infinity, even though no one knows. Maybe you believe that life exists on other planets? Maybe you believe in UFOs or life-sustaining planets. The point I'm trying to make is that we all have faith in something existing or being true without having scientific proof or understanding of it at this point in time. Can we agree on that?

Think about it. We could all be experiments in a giant alien computer and you wouldn't even know it in which case everything you "know" and "believe in" is inherently wrong. No matter how much you prove it, this might not exist at all.

That's just an illustration though. I'm a whacked out religious nut, not an alien nut lest the two be confused.

we believe in something that we can not see and feel? well that is only true to an extent.
i mean i know that i can feel god moving in my life. yes i can feel him.
and people have witnessed miracles...whether you would call them coincidences or miracles is debate-able.
but again that is what faith is all about. that is the defintion of faith. believing and putting your trust in a god that you may not be able to see. and it is very reewarding...

Sorry to bust your balloon, but science completely supports the Bible and the theory of creation; whereas, the theory of evolution is completely in opposition to the laws of science--completely in opposition. Many scientists begin their "research" by breaking the cardinal rule in scientific research, that is, not to enter their research with a bias and especially not ruling out one of the outcomes. Virtually without exception, evolutionary scientists begin all of their reseach with one bias and unacceptable conclusion of their research, that is, they begin with the assumption that there is no God. Any findings that point towards God, with are many, are ignored and thrown out.

Science completely obliterates the theory of evolution. Most scientists have been very dishonest with the facts, and have mislead the common person. I would encourage you to join the "Creation vs Evolution" forum where we can have a much more detailed debate--if you are up for it.

SamuelRJ

The Christian religion is different and unique from all other religions. In fact, I would say that there are only two groups of "religions" (I put this in quotes since I would refer to Christianity as a "relationship" not a "religion") that of Christianity, the one true religion, and all other religions, which are in existence as a distraction and detractor from the one true religion.

Why is Christianity so unique. Various reasons, but the one I will give is that only Christianity has as its foundation the true Word of God, the Bible. How can I make this ridiculously outlandish statement? Easy, only the Bible is signed by God. OK, now you are saying, this guy is out of his mind. But let's take step back for a moment. If God wanted to give us His Word, and He also knew that there would be many other counterfeits put out to detract and contradict His Word, then how could He validate to all of His people that the Bible is His Word, and all others are false. Simple--prophecy. The Bible is without exception the only "religious" book that contains prophecies, hundreds of prophecies. Furthermore, at least half of them have already happened, and with 100% accuracy. I contend that prophecy is God's signature on His Word.

There are many great books out there that summarize all of the prophecies in the Bible, but if you would like to read a small, and very amazing, selection of these prophecies, then I would encourage you to go to "FoundationsForOurFaith.com" and read the study on "Prophecy." It is about a 10 minute read, but gives one amazing examples of the very detailed prophecies that have come true.

Oh, and please do not point to Nostradamus as a book of prophecy. His accuracy is around 10%, the same as Jean Dixon, and even those prophecies that supposedly came true, if you read the actual text, are extremely vague and ambiguous.

whoa. hold up. rewind!!!
did u say that christianity is only a relationship? and not a religion?
or were u just saying that as a comparison or wat???