EMW

Any help you can give probably won't be applicable for me now, but I'll definitely use it in the future.

Here's the situation: I'm working with a local band on some music videos. I finished editing last night, and need to send in the finished product tomorrow in order to get it into the Videomaker contest in time.

Videomaker requires video release forms if you submit any material that you don't own.

The music video includes footage from myself, from ThinkMedia Studios, and from TBN.

Basically the band signed a release for TBN that gave the broadcast company permission to use their music and appearance. The band thinks it's logical that since they helped TBN out by performing, that TBN should have no problem letting the band use the footage for their own promotion. Our intention is to use TBN's footage (30 seconds) as part of a music video for non-profit promotions for both of us.

I have releases for everything but TBN. I gave a video release to the band leader to get signed, but here's what he said:

Band: Sorry. TBN won't sign the release. I don't know what else to say right now.

Me: Can you at least get them to handwrite a paper that gives me permission by name to use their footage in the contest? That's the minimum I need. Even an email that says, sure, Ryan Nord can use the footage for the 2008 Videomaker Contest is acceptable.

Band: Well the lawyer won't get back to me. It's ridiculous. I've been in talks all week over 30 seconds of footage. They are most concerned with it being on myspace or the internet. I may be able to get permission for a contest but that would imply that we are trying to make money off of it.I'm really mad about the whole thing right now.

Me: Wow. Well, please do everything that you can. Basically, once I mail in the video, it becomes the property of the magazine, and we keep all intellectual rights...but in the first place we need the rights.

If they weren't going to allow you to use the footage for anything, why did they give you a copy? I was under the impression that you were allowed to use the footage for the music video.

If worse comes to worse, and you can't get through to them, can you write me a permission note? Since they personally gave you a copy with vocal approval to use it, theoretically you own some rights to it now. Especially if you didn't sign any forms before or after performing for them. At least that way I can send it in while the matter is debated.

Band: I did sign forms giving them legal right. The point is that the woman at TBN said, "It shouldn't be a problem." when I brought it up to her. Then when I got the video she said the same thing. Then when I emailed her she said the same thing. Then the lawyer said no and doesn't return my calls or emails.

I don't have a solution anymore. Maybe use footage from the coffeehouse or something. I'm so mad I can't even think straight.

Right now we can't find any solution. It looks like we'll have to make do without TBN's footage for this contest, but we would like to use it as part of our video in future contests/promotional non-profit work.

What do you see? Are we right, are they right, is there nothing we can do?
(attached is the video release i drew up)

Unfortunately you can't do anything. If they shot the video they own it. And why you would be doing using someone else's footage in a contest I have no idea. Cut the footage and go with what you did.

The video belongs to the person that shot it--just like still images belong to the photographer, not the model.

With the exception of intellectual property of individuals, it's easiest not to use other footage in the very beginning. Corporations don't care who you are, why you are doing it, etc... they will say no. It's too much of a risk for them, not to mention allowing their work to be used by anybody other than themselves.

Recut it. Otherwise, I'm sure you'll be disqualified. I was going to enter Spielberg's On the Lot contest but my short had a snippet of a Peter Gabriel song so it wasn't accepted.

Oh, and it's best to do all of that stuff yourself and not rely on the talent. You don't know exactly how the band is phrasing things or if they are giving all the information, so it's best to handle business matters yourself with the band's name as backup.

Let me clear some things up so we're all on the same page, then I'll explain how this got resolved

And why you would be doing using someone else's footage in a contest I have no idea.

Originally the band contacted me, and wanted me to make a music video for them. The theme is their rapid progression and growth, shown in 3 stages.

1) They are performing at a local coffeehouse - I recorded this personally.
2) They are performing for TV for TBN. WDLI's manager provided that footage to the band for this purpose.
3) They are perfoming at a concert for 20,000 - I recorded this personally, and the band arranged to use the footage of the professional company that also covered the event.

So you can see that I didn't make the video FOR contests, but that a contest came up, and I'd like to enter my work. The video is for the band, but they are allowing me to use it for contests. And you can see why a band would want original footage from concerts and TV studios to be used!

Oh, and it's best to do all of that stuff yourself and not rely on the talent. You don't know exactly how the band is phrasing things or if they are giving all the information, so it's best to handle business matters yourself with the band's name as backup.

Again, the band came to me for help with making the video - some filming, and all editing. They were the ones to deal with TBN, so they should handle the business aspect. Especially seeing as how I'm in high school, and the band is out of college...I'm probably not qualified to deal directly with legal matters with a national corporation's lawyers.

--

OK, we finally resolved the issue.

Apparently, because the band signed a video release form to TBN, the company owns all rights to their footage and doesn't have to give us permission to use anything. After sending an angry email to the lawyer, he finally got a response. They adamantly refused to allow their footage to be used in any contests, and would not sign our release. However, they drew up a limited document that gives us permission to use their footage on Youtube only.

At least we got that much from them.

It would be horrible if my video won something in the contest, and then Videomaker contacted TBN to determine if they gave us rights....if I didn't have those explicit rights, I would be kicked out of the contest, and TBN might pursue legal action. The reason that the band was upset was that they had been personally handed a copy of the footage by the WDLI station manager, and had been told in person, over the phone, and over email that there should be no issue with them using the footage for their non-profit promotions music video.

If it's not your footage, you don't get to use it. It's just that simple. Sometimes contests are hard that way. I normally shoot all my own footage so I don't run into these problems but technically speaking the cooperation owns all rights to that music video because they own the footage used it it. If you don't have explicit rights to use it for contests, (which don not count as nonprofit mind you) there's just nothing you can do and I don't know if they really have time to go through all the stuff they need to do to approve it. Of course they are being a little difficult to deal with but they kind of have to do that because if they didn't they wouldn't be lawyers. It's their job to do what they are doing.

Well, we got full release forms signed from ThinkMediaStudios, giving us full rights to use their footage however we please for contests and promotional use. I guess that when you're actually dealing with a huge corporation, things are different than with independent production groups. So it was just TBN that was being difficult and unresponsive.

The video contest is absolutely fine with me using other people's footage, so long as I provide proof that they said it's OK.

So I'm kind of upset that we can't use what they gave us, although we were given verbal consent, but it's not the end of the world.

At least the online version is allowed to incorporate their footage!

Neighborhood Studios wrote:

Oh, and it's best to do all of that stuff yourself and not rely on the talent. You don't know exactly how the band is phrasing things or if they are giving all the information, so it's best to handle business matters yourself with the band's name as backup.

Again, the band came to me for help with making the video - some filming, and all editing. They were the ones to deal with TBN, so they should handle the business aspect. Especially seeing as how I'm in high school, and the band is out of college...I'm probably not qualified to deal directly with legal matters with a national corporation's lawyers.

Okay. I thought this was just kind of a local teenage band, but since you said they played for 20,000 they probably have their own lawyers and managers to take care of that crap.

So you didn't enter the contest?

The band is made up of local musicians who play gigs - the band isn't their bread-and-butter.

www.willycleary.com

So the band leader got legal advice from his father, but as a group they don't have a crew of lawyers and assistants. They are to the music world what we are to the video world - independent.

I recut with some of my footage and sent it in last week - it definitely lost some production value, but I am still optimistic about its chances.

You can view the finished video at

http://emw.freeforums.org/music-video-t ... .html#2454

The reason that the film used footage from other sources than myself was that the band performed for TV and for concerts covered by other production studios, and the film was meant to be a "documentary" of their path. But do check it out!