Quick Religious Question

vswimsfly · by **vswimsfly** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:57 pm

ok samuel i totally know what youre thinking about "why would god put the bad people here if he knew the future for them" and im 100% catholic but yeh i do wonder that sometimes

and heres my little theory:
think of it as if i was at a salad bar. (random i know) and i got my little plate and god is watching us. so i walk down the salad bar and god is like "hey i bet she choses the tomatoes" and of course i go and chose the tomatoes and then hes like "she'll skip over the ranch and chose the vingarette" and then i do just what he said.

he has a extremely close guess of what we are going to do because he created us so well and so great that he knows everything about us. he created us before the devil even came into play (cuz the devil used to be an angel that rebelled againt god and you probably know the story)

so after giving us free will and then the devil started temptations he ultimately wants us to be happy and worship him. but he isnt a dictator. he loves us so much that he would rather us just live how we like and learn to love him. kinda like i would rather a boy like me because he wanted to then if i shot him with cupids arrow so he was forced to like me...

samuelrj · by **samuelrj** on Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:51 pm

So you're saying that god creates us so well that he knows almost everythiing that we will do? That means that there are some things he can't see. Satan is who takes over our thoughts and steers us in the wrong direction? But if god was really all knowing, he would know everything, including satan's moves.

Plus, satan being an angel and rebelling, wouldn't god have seen that comming too?

vswimsfly · by **vswimsfly** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:29 am

samuelrj wrote:So you're saying that god creates us so well that he knows almost everythiing that we will do? That means that there are some things he can't see. Satan is who takes over our thoughts and steers us in the wrong direction? But if god was really all knowing, he would know everything, including satan's moves.

Plus, satan being an angel and rebelling, wouldn't god have seen that comming too?

just because god sees it coming doesnt mean he wants to stop it.
HE GAVE US FREE WILL.
yes satan is the one who steers us in the wrong direction
yes god know us so well because he made us that he knows what we will do
HE GAVE US FREE WILL
that is why he doesnt stop the bad things. and there is a reason for everything that happens. he wants us to come to him out of out FREE WILL.
again with my boyfriend analogy...

envisageworks · by **envisageworks** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:32 pm

Yup. Again, it goes into the 4th dimension thing. Vswimsfly got it right. He knows what we are going to do, but he gives us fee will. Again, he sees the whole picture, because he is outside of time. He knows everything.

Just because you know what is going to happen, doesn't mean you change it. God knows which choices we are going to make, but he needs to let us make them.

Make sense?

VIP · by **VIP** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:05 pm

I think it's more like an alternate viewpoint. It's like our lives have been made into an epic documentary and we chose what happens. Unfortunately the movie has already been made and God is watching it for the third of fourth time. He knows what will happen because he is outside of time. He can fast forward and rewind at will because he can move freely throughout the fourth dimension. He knows everything that will happen but he does not control everything that happens. The thing is, you are living this epic film in the now and you chose what happens in your life.

Spybabe7 · by **Spybabe7** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:59 pm

Hi everyone, i am Spybabe7 and am new to the forum, and think the discussions going on are so interesting. Everyone posting has such interesting things to say.

To the question about why would God create beings he knew would not chose Him and go to hell? ok, here are my thoughts...

Maybe the human existence is not merely about whether we get to heaven or go to hell... maybe human existence also has to do with making the ‘human race’ actually function. In other words, every human is part of a web of interaction that affects many other people. In OTHER other words, every action from every person, (whether that person chooses God or not) is necessary to make the human race function. Sort of like the "ripple effect".

So, even though it is God’s desire that every person should choose him and go to heaven, he allows all to exist (whether they choose him or not) because those who do NOT choose him are needed in this world to provide evidence that there really is a choice… for then it truly is a choice.

Otherwise, it would only be a ‘speculation’ that there is a choice; not a real choice.

Spybabe7 · by **Spybabe7** on Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:34 pm

Hi everyone... i am Spybabe7, and am new to the forum. I am thinking about the question if prayer does anything?

I think that prayer is God's way of giving us humans something by which to exercise our faith and spiritual power. I think that prayer sets in motion certain things in the spiritual realm (i.e., the other dimensions we cannot see or do not know about).

We are not mere spectators of spiritual things, we are actual participants. One of the ways we participate is through prayer. That does not mean we 'get' everything we 'pray' for, but the Bible tells us to ask God for stuff, thank him for stuff, ask him to reveal stuff to us, and pray His desire for us (or those we pray for) into happening. Even if a person does not believe in the Bible, these are good things to pray to that 'higher being' they do believe in.

An example of praying God's ‘desire’ for us would be… let’s say a coworker is undermining and lying about you. You HATE this person and want revenge cuz he is making you look stupid in front of your bosses. The natural response would be to deceitfully turn things against that person. However, you go to God, tell him you feel such hatred for this person (he knows it anyway), and ask him to change your heart, help you control that hatred (which is an icky feeling anyway, who wants to feel hatred?), and that He actually help you feel kindness towards this person who truly is ‘wronging’ you. THEN, ask God to do the work for you… shut this person up! protect your reputation, let this person’s lies come out in the open so everyone will see, vindicate you! (This actually happened to me.)

Choosing to live for God involves more than just ‘getting to heaven’. It gives us spiritual power now, here on earth, not when we are dead.

Does that make any sense?

VIP · by **VIP** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:08 pm

Very good responses Spy, those are well though out replies.

Also, welcome to the forums, if you don't mind I'd like to know what your personal spiritual beliefs are. What religion do you follow if any?

Neighborhood Studios · by **Neighborhood Studios** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:31 pm

Hmm....I think that there will always be good and evil. Wouldn't be a boring and bland world if everyone was good and perfect, or vice versa? We need the good people to balance out the bad so that society will function, and the opposite as well.

Everything has a purpose.

vswimsfly · by **vswimsfly** on Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:20 pm

i dont think there are such things as good people and bad people. god didnt make people bad. why would he do that?
i knew this one kid that would always say "im not a bad kid. i just make bad choices."
i think that sounds really confusing but i think its totally true.

Neighborhood Studios · by **Neighborhood Studios** on Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:50 pm

I dont think there are such things as good people and bad people. god didnt make people bad. why would he do that?

I think that you are making mistakes in your judgment of what I said. I never wrote that God makes bad people. However, you have to accept the fact that God gave people free will, and that many people in this world make the choice to lead bad lives. There's plenty of people who don't care about their actions, or if what they do will cause harm.

i knew this one kid that would always say "im not a bad kid. i just make bad choices."
i think that sounds really confusing but i think its totally true.

That's true in some situations, in which one's environment and way of life impacts their actions, but...I've always wanted to play devil's advocate, so answer me this:

By your judgment, killers, terrorists, rapists, etc are all good decent people who just made a bad choice. Is that correct?

VIP · by **VIP** on Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:56 pm

Who you are defines what you chose. If you are making chronically bad decisions chances are you are a bad person.

envisageworks · by **envisageworks** on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:48 am

True. Its a mixing pot. God gave us free will, and we can do what we want with it. We can accept Jesus, and gain all of God, or ignore the fact, and be sent to a place where there is no God. (Satan doesn't rule hell by the way, hell is a punishment place for Satan).

Replying to spybabes argument, that was a very interesting way of looking at prayer. I totally agree. God already knows what we will get, what he is going to allow us to have, and how are lives are turned out. Prayer is a way of depending ones relationship with God.

Each choice we make leads us closer or farther from God. After you have accepted him, you are going to heaven, that is simple. However, God did not just make life a choosing time for the after life, he made it so we can go deeper in him, and use him now.

So your right, he could have just said, "these will choose me, these wont, story over", but it is so much more than that. Humans have the opportunity of an actual relationship, supernatural peace, and the power to proclaim a bondage between their maker and themselves. It is much much more than heaven and hell.

Spybabe7 · by **Spybabe7** on Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:19 pm

Thanks for the good words...

VIP asked me what my beliefs are... well... hmmmm.....

I HATE religion and the little boxes that 'man' has put god into. But I absolutely LOVE the 'real' God.

To me, God is real, not just a 'belief', 'crutch', 'story in a book', etc... I have experienced God being real in my life in many ways, things and experiences that have happened that could not be coincidences and could not be explained except that they were orchastrated by God. I have prayed that God reveal something to me, and he has. I have seen scriptures in the Bible become real and actually happen. Promises made. Warnings. Descriptions of how God works. The Bible to me, is like magic... or magik... godly magik... (is that possible? godly magik? magik coming from the highest possible source... God. I dunno, did i just blaspheme?)

Anyway, i am more interested in the nitty-gritty of who God is and how he relates and interacts with us humans. I am not interested in religion, rules, legalistic mumbo jumbo, etc...

vswimsfly · by **vswimsfly** on Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:13 pm

Neighborhood Studios wrote:
That's true in some situations, in which one's environment and way of life impacts their actions, but...I've always wanted to play devil's advocate, so answer me this:

By your judgment, killers, terrorists, rapists, etc are all good decent people who just made a bad choice. Is that correct?

i think that those people have reasons for what they did not matter how crazy. the reason might be that they are crazy! but i know for a fact that in one time in that killer, terrorist, rapists life they were a good person. whether it be when they were a kid or when they get old...
just people who make bad choices. because god made us all perfect how we are, we just make the bad choices which give us the label as bad people

EMW

Quick Religious Question

Does prayer change things?

question about spybabe's beliefs

Who is online