EMW

So you're still saying that they are good decent people who just did some bad things?

yes. i mean i consider myself a decent person but i have done some bad things. i mean ive never killed anyone, but i still sin and have faults...im a decent person at least.
then there are murders and rapists which you are probably refering to. when they were born they were not born evil or bad.
no one is born as a bad person. god wouldnt create someone that way.

Well if you take the bible as your guide it says that all of us were born evil, or born into sin but that's beside the point.

So you would say that everyone is good on the inside but they just do bad things on the outside to cope with the rest of the mean old world. I shouldn't have to tell you that that's circular. But furthermore, I think that it's possible for someone to chose to be evil, to give up all goodness inside of them for no other reason than because they like it, (think Joker) and they then become truly bad people. Most people don't go very fast and it's never black and white but I think it's fine to label someone by the choices they make. It not that good nice person underneath that matters, it's what you do that defines you.

hmmm that was pretty good vip. not gonna lie.lol
and everyone is born with original sin, but that is absolved when you are baptised....just thought id throw that out there...

because god made us all perfect how we are

God, did not make us perfect. He made us how he wanted to make us, in his image, but not perfect. See, if I said that I wanted to draw a circle, but instead I draw a square. The circle (square) is perfect to me, but it wouldn't be perfect to you because you think a circle is round, but I think it is square. So, God creates us perfect how he wants us, but not perfect holiness and so forth.

Also, to reply to this post. Spybabe had a very good viewpoint in my opinion. Each person created by God will affect someone no matter what happens. Take for example, God knows John Rudefer will be going to Hell because he murdered Joe Vagread (made up names). Then lets say God says, oh well I'm not going to create John Rudefer because he's going to Hell anyways. Well, then what about Joe Vagread? Maybe God wanted Joe Vagread in Heaven with him and maybe it was his time to leave this sinful place?

God always does things for the better; not for the worse. With my story; Joe Vagread may have died, but guess what I'm jealous! He gets to be in fricking Heaven while I'm stuck here.

I'm not saying God creates people to kill each other so that someone will go to Heaven with him and he does have a good plan for each person... But everyone has free will. I can choose to do something good, or I can choose to do something bad. What I do defines me as a person.

However; I do not believe in good or bad people. I only believe in sinful people.

By your judgment, killers, terrorists, rapists, etc are all good decent people who just made a bad choice. Is that correct?

Every sinner has good inside of them, its just if they choose to sin or to not. So we all are sinful. Which makes us all bad, but we all have good; which therefore makes us all good? No, we are just sinful... Nothing else.

In God's eyes all sins are equal.

In God's eyes all sins are equal.

I don't think so. If I steal because I want something, or for the thrill, then that has more weight than someone stealing food to survive. You also have to look at culpability, understanding of the action, willingness, etc. Not all sins are equal. I'm sure that a murder will have more of an effect on your future than a white lie.

Any sin is a violation of God's law. We sometimes categorize some sins as being more worse than others, but not in God's eyes. One of our great difficulties in our service of God is thinking that our little "white sins" are not as bad as those "big bad sins". The difficulty we have is that we do not see sin through God's eyes, we see it through human eyes.

James 2:10
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." NIV

Short religious question, there is a contradiction of terms if ever I've seen one.

We sometimes categorize some sins as being more worse than others, but not in God's eyes. One of our great difficulties in our service of God is thinking that our little "white sins" are not as bad as those "big bad sins".

What about official teaching of venial and mortal sin? There are levels of seriousness. If I sin without realizing that I did wrong, because I didn't know any better, surely that has less consequence that someone knowingly and purposefully sinning!

Maybe so, why are you asking me? Do I sound like God or something?!?

well if you sin and dont realize it then its still bad. that seems pretty obvious. like you have to pay for your consequences no matter what.
like if you run the speed limit and you dont realize your going over the limit you are still breaking the law.

Maybe so, why are you asking me? Do I sound like God or something?!?

You seem to be debating from a Christian perspective, but you were also saying that white lie or murder, it all is the same. But from a Christian perspective, if you support that all sins are the same in the eyes of God, why the classification of venial and mortal sin? It just seemed like a contradiction between you and church teaching, so I needed to know if you are coming from the church's perspective or your own personal beliefs.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." NIV

I'm just reading straight text out of the bible, thats all...

Is that your personal belief? What do you think about mortal and venial - should there be a classification, or is it a misinterpretation?

Mmm, I'm not sure... Maybe I'm confused myself?