EMW

i know this'll end up in a full on debate and i know i said I wouldnt come back to this, but I need to hear what you guys think.

If god is all knowing, then that means that he can see the future so he knows who is going to hell and who is going to heavan before he creates them. Since people end up in hell (according to the christians), why does god create them knowing that he will eventually send them to eternal damnation? Isn't he supposed to be all-loving?

Well that question has baffled some of the worlds greatest minds. I think C.S. Lewis said that God can see what will come to be because he is outside of time. Some people think he simply sees possible outcomes. I personally think that God would like us to chose him but he knows that some of us will not. There is a really interesting book by Ted Dekker that talks about that stuff.

Yeah, in fact, there are over 11 detentions known, the 4th dimension being time, so we couldn't possibly comprehend this. I totally did a huge speech on this to my class one year. He put us in our places. He is like on a balloon watching the parade go by, he can see the whole parade, as we can only see only what is before us. Our minds cant comprehend it. You can look at the individual branches on a tree, and see where they ended up, but not have anything to do with them choosing where to go.

I'm not doubting that a hypothetical god can see the future, I'm debating what he does despite knowing the outcome.

If you knew that your child would live a horrible life full of pain and suffering despite what you do, would you have a child??

Well, I don't think he does anything, considering that he is out of time, and don't live through events. He is just there, like, always. I would say that he does give us fair choice. Knowing him hasn't limited me at all, infact, it has benefited my life greatly. So rather, he set us all in our places, and he doesn't interfere if we choose him or not.

So you're saying that prayer does nothing?

I think that God built this time on what we do. Its like, we are set up with a ton of paths we can take. So when we pray, god can see when we prayed, when we will pray, and has set up our lives according to our prayers, as he already knows what will happen. And I also think that prayer changes more of us then it does life.

Wow, it is like, a chat with you, considering we are the only two on the forum, constantly posting.

Well, I'll say this
At the moment I cannot disprove that.
But I'll get back to you


Maybe AIM would be more efficient. Or your live chat thing on ur website. More hits for your website, eh?

I'll be there

OK
So if god can see the future, then he doesn't need to give us all these paths because he knows which one we will take. By knowing this, he still knows whether we will go to hell of not.

He is still creating people knowing that they will suffer for all of eternity.

I am on the chat room.

Yeah, but then he wouldn't be giving us equal choice. If he made it so that there was no choosing on our part, and that the odds of choosing weren't the same (like it would be if he only let christian people be born), then that would be taking away our free choice. He put us in time so that we had the option to choose. With no time, there is no choice, just outcome. He also created the universe so that we need him. It is not that he is sending us to hell, hell is just a place with a complete absence of God, which is a terrible place.

Ok, if I say I'm gonna roll a pair of dice and you can see the future that theyre gonna be a 6 and a 2, then you know that theyre gonna be a 6 and a 2. Youre not changing the dice or controlling them, you just know whats gonna happen

Im not saying that god doesnt give you lots of paths, im just saying that its pointless to give somebody multiple paths when you know which one theyre gonna choose. The paths may be there but they wont be used and god knows that, assuming hes there.

Hmmm... let me think about that. Dont log off.

ill be here
Im on the chat right now

last time i had it refresh every 0 sec so i think thats why it messed up
its at every 5 sec now.
It cuts off my typing every 5 sec, but better that then manual refreshing.

Hello Mr. SamuelRJ. I am new to this here forum and since this discussion is all about politics & religion (the very things that get people pissed off) let me just start out by pissing you off!

$%@! and %$#@!!&.

There, that should do it. Who likes being cussed out on the first hello? Now that that is out of the way you hopefully are offended, I hopefully have insulted you and now we can both be over it!

Having gotten that out of the way. You have posited some very good thoughts. I want to make sure I have them properly reflected below. They are (maybe like you movie-maker guys out there know) the frame that leads to a sequence, that leads to a scene, that in theatre make up an act and and a series of acts make up a play, and a play is a story!

So lets see what kind of story you are causing us to be writing Mr. SamuelJR! Let me know if I have understood this properly:

1) If god is all knowing,

2) then that means that he can see the future

3) so he knows who is going to hell and who is going to heaven

4) before he creates them

5) Since people end up in hell

6) (according to the Christians),

7) why does god create them

8. knowing that he will eventually send them to eternal damnation?

9) Isn't he supposed to be

10) all-loving?

BTW: I hope I haven't insulted you by my silliness. Your thoughts are serious and deserve good responses. I just like to find as much humor in life as possible!

Agent86

I do admit, agent, that your post made me laugh. I am not one to get angry over humor, so I'm totally fine with it.

Yes you did get my argument right. Was there a counterpoint that you wanted to make?