EMW

Wow, this forum has really touched on some interesting topics.

Couple of points:

- Correct that Jesus Christ is God, but He is God in the sense of the Trinity, i.e. three in one. He is also a separate personage of the Trinity, which is very clear in Scripture. Scripture is also clear that you cannot worship God without also worshipping Jesus Christ His Son. If one believes in God, but rejects Jesus Christ, then the Bible says that that person per se has also rejected God (cf. John 5:22-23, I John 2:23). God says that if you reject His Son you have rejected Him, no exceptions.

- The Old Testament has hundreds of prophecies looking forward to Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Though not called Christians, those Old Testament saints that believed in God and died believing in and looking forward to the Coming Messiah are saved. In chapter 16 of the book of Luke we are given a description of what happened to the Old Testatment saints between the time they died and the Coming of Jesus Christ in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Some look this as a parable, but proper names are never used in parables, so this was an actual account being given by Jesus. Old Testament saints, when they died, were sent to an interim location to await the Coming of Jesus Christ. Once He came, died for our sins, and paved the way to salvation, the Old Testament saints could then enter into heaven. Those that died after the Cross had/have a direct flight to heaven with no stopovers.

- Yes, all other religions are wrong and will not lead to heaven, but will lead to an eternity in a very undesirable place. Jesus told His disciples in His Sermon on the Mount that the road to heaven is narrow and only few will find it, but the road to hell is wide and many will unfortunately take that path (cf. Matthew 7:13-14). There is one way to heaven, that being Jesus Christ. Any belief that tells us otherwise, including all of the other religions, which are the wide roads, is the most harmful of deceptions.

- How can I be so bold as to say that Christianity is the only true religion? The Bible, God's Word and the foundation of Christian beliefs, is the only religious book that can be authenticated beyond a doubt that it was written by the God of the universe. How is that? By the hundreds of prophecies written in the book that are 100% accurate about future events. Only the true God could have written (i.e. written through men) such a book--a God that is outside of time. Prophecy is God's signature on His Book. Think about it. What better way for God, knowing that there would be many false religions and religious books in the world, to let us know that the Bible is the one true Book of God. If you are interested in some very awesome examples of the amazing prophecies in the Bible, you can check out the Bible study on "Prophecy" at FoundationsForOurFaith.com.

These questions being raised are very exciting to discuss.

so brad has been talking about all these different prophecies that have been fortold in the bible and have come true...are u talking about the book of revelation????
i have been told that the book of revelation is a book of prophcies...i know its a dream but im still not sure if thats what you were talking about or wat ????

I always thought that (most) the happenings in Revelation were for the "end of the world". When Jesus comes back, and the final war between good and evil happens, and all that. I think what he means is that all the prophecies that were supose to happen befor NOW have happened perfectly as fortold. But the time for the others yet to heppen, has not come yet. So they are treated as either true prophecies nor falce ones.

Good Question. The prophecies to which I am referring are those in the Old Testament, and they are absolutely amazing in their detail and accuracy. I would greatly recommend you checking out the study on "Prophecy" at FoundationsForOurFaith.com for some examples of these prophecies. After even reading this small selection, anyone who is truly seeking the truth will not be able to deny that these were written by a God outside of time.

In regards to the book of Revelation, it can generally be broken down into three sub-sections (this division is actually given in verse 1:19 in the book).
Section 1: Chapter 1 speaking of what was, i.e. the Coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ
Section 2: Chapters 2 and 3 speaking of what "is", i.e. the specific seven churches that existed at the time of the writting.
Section 3: Chapters 4 thru 22 speaking of what will come (and as of today still has not come), i.e. what will happen in the end times beginning with the seven-year period, sometimes referred to as the Great Tribulation (actually, the Great Tribulation will be the last half of that seven years, and more appropriately this seven-year period)

However, one interesting and debatable note is that many conservative Bible scholars believe that the seven churches listed in chapters 2 and 3 represent the seven major church periods throughout the last ~2,000 years. That is, in their exact order and according to the attributes ascribed to each church, they define the major characteristics of the dominant church movements over seven periods of time. This would be the only prophecy that would have already occurred from a prophetic standpoint in the Book of Revelation. However, it is interesting to note that the technologies eluded to in the Book of Revelation were incomprehensible up until around the last 50 to 100 years. And what is happening over in Europe regarding the European Union was foretold in the Old Testament, and figures into the end-times prophecies of the Book of Revelation as well.

Off topic: Man I only posted like 5 minutes ago how'd you get ALL that up so fast...

hmmm okay
but i thought those seven cities/churches were the ones that exsisted back then in asia...not churches now..???

You are correct, they were seven churches that existed at that time. The prophetic nature of the churches is in the attributes of each church. If you look at the churches in the order given in the book of Revelation, each church's attributes describe the attributes of seven periods of the Christian church over the ~2000 years between the Cross and now, that is, seven distinct periods of the Christian movement. Very quick synopsis:

Ephesus: 33 -100 AD They were working hard for the Lord, but lost sight of their first love, i.e. the reason they were working.

Smyrna: 100 - 313 AD The church was being very heavily persecuted, but they were standing strong for their faith. Christians were sacrificing their lives for their faith during this period.

Pergamum: 313 - 590 AD The church received a reprieve when Constantine became Ceasar. Christians were remaining true to Christ, but were following the ways of Nicolaitans and Balaam. Nicolaitans is thought to possibly mean to lord over the Laity, or church leaders were beginning to exert too much control over the common people. And Balaam was known for trying to profit from religion. Organized church government starting to form, and with it man tries to exert control over his fellow man and to profit--not a good thing.

Thyratira: 590 - 1545 AD Roman Catholic Church (apologies to Catholics, but the Catholic Church started centuries after Christ, and was not where to be seen in the beginning of Christianity) The Catholic Church focused on good works, but was accepting of "the woman Jezebel", and she represented pagan religions and ceremonies. This can be seen in some of the Catholic doctrines of praying to the Saints, the garments worn by the Pope, and certain other traditions that have their roots in the pagan religions of that time. The Church at that time was allowing areas of paganism to enter into the church to make it more appealing to those people they were trying bring into the church. Compromise is never a good thing when it comes to the Lord and His Word.

Pergamum: 1545 - 1700 AD Protestant Reformation (now to pick on the Protestants) Martin Luther pointed out the pagan practices of the Catholic Church, and protested the teachings (thus the term "Protestants"). It started out well, but as we see, this movement appeared to be alive but was dead. Though this movement brought about proper believes firmly grounded in the Scriptures and not on traditions or pagan practices (not to say it was perfect teaching), those who broke off did not have an alive church in the way of reaching out to the world and growing the church. Though their form, i.e. teachings, were solid, it appears that the true heart of the Christian faith was not there for many of the followers as the movement grew.

Philadelphia: 1700 - 1900 AD Now the Church went through a wonderful period of growth and ministry to the world. This period was probably the greatest period of revival since the apostlistic period.

Laodecia: 1900 to Present Sadly, we are now in the last period. Mankind is more after worldly wealth than spiritual riches. We are turning farther and farther away from God. A warning is given to those who are lukewarm, trying to straddle the fence and be a Christian and at the same time embrace the world and its sinful ways. God says of these people, "because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

Most of the dates are approximations, that is, they are not exact dates except for the 313 AD when Constantine became Caesar. Excuse me if my quotes are not exact, I'm doing this off of memory, but the just to the quotes are correct.

Hope this helps clarify what I was trying to communicate.

o ok well i just wanted to point out that the Roman Catholic Church does not worhip or pray to the saints. we ask THEM to pray for US. which is not in any way paganish. (lol paganish) big difference that lots of people confuse us for.

who is the woman of Jezebel?

the lady in the book of revelation

oh i haven't read the revelation since like, 8th grade!! ill have to refresh my memory again