EMW

I thought it'd be cool to create a place to debate different religions and stuff like that. I'm posting here to say that I am a strong, firm Christian girl ( www.freewebs.com/freak_for_christ ) and I love the Lord my God with all I have. I believe that Jesus Christ lived, died for my sins, and rose from the dead on Easter Sunday. How do I know this to be true? Well first of all it's all in the bible. But if you want physical, tangible evidence, go to Israel. I went there through my church recently and after going there I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly NOT believe on God! There is so much evidence of Jesus' existence in that country alone!

How about you all? Do any of you agree/disagree with me? I'm here for discussion

dont get me started. actually, do, im bored

anywhoo, if there is a god then why is it that i have a wonderful life, yet im an atheist?

God isn't going to make your life horrible because you don't believe in Him. That would be mean. I wouldn't want a God who forces us to believe in Him. The cool thing is that God gives us the option. So if you don't want to believe you don't have to. But if you do believe the rewards are so great.

Have you ever wondered what would happen to you after you die? If your an athiest I'm guessing you believe that u die and it's over, right? Now personally I would rather believe that after death there is a greater life in heaven with Jesus Christ my Lord. He died to save us from our sins so that we may live eternally in heaven with him! All we must do is believe. I believe.

Yes, you both have good points. But Hannah is right. God does not punish, he only loves. And even if we sin, God doesn't punish, it is the sin that does the bad things, that is why you should try your hardest not to sin. My life is perfect right now. I have friends, a great family, a good future, I couldn't ask for anything else. However, there is more. Knowing Jesus gives hope for everything. It is something that I can't explain. I do a lot with my life, and my energy and modivation comes from God. But I agree with you Sam. Why would you need God if you life is perfect? Well, what makes your life perfect? What will God give you? And the big question, is there an afterlife? Or at least something that happens to a soul?

A huge debate is Creation vs. Evolution. A debate that I love!!! Actually, Hannah is right in some ways. There is solid evidence confirming that Jesus did live. Even athiest writers wrote about him. The question is weather he is God or not....

Evolution is taught in all public schools. However, if you do a little bit of digging from outside sources, you will find that the theory is totaly irrelivent. There is no proof of evolution at all. Now evedence points to it happening, but doesn't confirm it. However, there is no proof at all that Creation ever took place. Just evidence that points to it. I will always beleive in God, but I have swiched back and forth on wheather he created the Earth in 7 days.... Look it up.

Sam:
What evedence points to evolution?
What makes your life perfect?
Is an after death future in consideration?

Hannah:
Why would you need God if life is perfect?
How do you explain the stars being millions of lightyears away, if they only existed 6000 years? And trust me, they are millions of lightyears away.
Why does God make it so difficult to go to heaven? And why would he send people to hell?


Questions to heaten the debate. I am not taking either sides here, but I do beleive in God.

hannah, you said that you would rather believe that when you die, you go to heaven or hell. Dispite a lack of proof, you seem to be leaning toward the more comforting answer,rather than what makes sense, but are you really willing to put your faith in a book written thousands of years ago just to have the comfort of "knowing" that your soul wont just rot away after you die?

and for envisageworks:
Sam:
What evedence points to evolution?
What makes your life perfect?
Is an after death future in consideration?

1. Germs. Anti bacterial hand soap stuff kills 99.9 percent of bacteria, thus leaving .1% left. this leaves .1% of the strongest bacteria to reproduce and have stronger offspring. now, if this happens with mocroscopc organismz, then why cant it happen on a larger scale with much more time for it to happen.

2. My life isnt perfect, its just better than most. i have friends, family, good education, moderate wealth, and a girlfriend (didnt mean to put her last, i swear). All this, given to an atheist by a god who will enividably send me to eternal damnation. it makes no sense.

3. I do not rule out what i do not know, just what seems unlikely and improbable in my mind. It is possible that a life after death exists, i jsut find it highly improbable, seeing as how a dead person never comes back to life(excluding the 1 min deaths then revived later in a hospital), and is completely lifeless.

Makes Sense.... Hannah?

You have got to be kidding. I just posted a really long good well thought-out response yesterday and it's not here!!!! Guh. Sorry but I just got home from work and I'm really tired and stressed right now and I just want to sleep. So I'll respond later. And no I'm not trying to excuse myself more time for a response I seriously DID respond but it didn't post it for some reason. guh. I'll post a response later but I just need to sleep I've been over-working myself too much lately.

God bless.

Okay. I just got my wisdom teeth removed and my mouth is completely numb so I guess now is a good time to post my answers to Connor's questions (again since the first time i posted the stupid comp wigged out and didnt post).

Now obviously God isn't going to make your life horrible because you aren't a Christian. That would be mean. and God isn't a wrathful God so much as a merciful God. If your life is going just how you want it right now then that's awesome. The bigger question is, what about AFTER death? True, I am leaning towards the more comforting choice. But that's because I KNOW it's the truth! Although it's hard to explain, I know there is a God beyond the shadow of a doubt. The proof u ask for is all around! The WORLD, the UNIVERSE is the proof!

Now considering evolution: There is such a thing as in-species evolution. A certain animal can adapt to a new climate or new surroundings. But it's not possible for one species to become a completely new species!

I'm no astrologer or scientist, so I can't really explain that star question thing. Also I don't even understand what you're asking. Sorry but your wording confuzzled me. But I will give you one example of sceintific proof of God's existence. So with magnets positive and negative attract, right? but two positives will push away from each other (same with two negatives). Atoms, however, are composed of two positive components. and everything is composed of atoms. Basically, we and everything else should just explode. The atoms should not be staying together, they should be pushing apart! So we should all be exploding! BOOM! How do you explain us being alive? I explain it with one word: God.

And it is not difficult to go to heaven. A lot of pastors say that you get to heaven by doing things. God isn't going to say "You weren't going to church enough so you're not going to heaven." All you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and you're saved! How is that hard? And God doesn't send people to hell. People make that choice themselves. There is no riding the fence. Either you believe or you don't. If you believe, then you're heaven bound, and if you don't then, well, that's your choice. Whether you believe in hell or not it is there. God does not choose where we go, we choose that ourselves. It all started with Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But when you think about it, all humans have a sin nature, so don't blame Adam and Eve. We as humans are curious and would've fallen into temptation just like they did no matter how much anyone denies it.

Now, Connor, I have a question for you: You say you aren't sure whether or not God created the earth in seven days. It says in the book of Genesis that He did. So here's my question: Do you believe in the bible?

Okay I'm really sore cuz I just got my wisdom teeth removed (and no that doesn't mean im not smart anymore lol) so I need to get off the computer and rest for a while.

But one more thing for Sam: I want to recommend a book to you. It's called "90 Minutes in Heaven" and it's a TRUE story about a guy who died in a car accident and a pastor prayed over him for 90 minutes even though the man was for sure beyond an doubt dead, and the man came back to life. It's an amazing book and I recommend you read it. Connor you should read it too even though I know yo aren't a book reading kind of guy. It's worth it!

I love you all and God bless!

Hannah ~ www.freewebs.com/freak_for_christ

AnointedMinstrel:

First and foremost, god doesnt make atheists lives bad because he doesnt exist. Why would you treat someone who doesnt like you as well as someone who praises you. Its just an excuse for you and others to believe.

Evolution, we have 46 chromosomes. 23 from our mother and 23 from our father. Monkeys have 48, 24 from each parent. This is because four of our chromosomes are fused together to make two. We are not the same species as monkeys, and this is because of the fusing chromosomes.

Magnet thing. I am not 100% sure, but i think that magnets work differently than our atoms. Just because something doesnt make sense, or we dont have an explination for it yet, doesnt mean that it has to be an omnipotent being. Back in the 1600s, people didnt know why the sky was blue. They said it was cause thats the way god made it. We found out why it is blue, therefore the christians changed their opinion, and took what the scientists, who they had been fighting for years, and accepted their explination. What do you think intellegent design is? Its the theories of scientists, who the poius people have been fighting, and accepted it, with their own little twist to it. They steal what they have been fighting just cause they know its right.

If god is all knowing, then that means that he knew that adam would eat the apple and doom all of mankind to pain and suffering, in their lives on earth. He set them up to fall into a trap that he knew would be fallen into. IT makes no sense.

Ill look into the book, if you check out the book called "letter to a christian nation" by sam harris.

i cant wait for ur response. This is fun
-sam

God loves us all the same. Whether we love Him or not, He still loves us and cares for us. You're probably going to ask how I know this as fact: because it's in the bible. Why do I believe in the bible? For one thing, seeing isn't believing. I don't need to see proof to know in my heart that the bible is the truth and that God exists. But I understand you wanting proof, I wanted this also at a point and I found it. As I think I mentioned earlier, I went to Israel last March. That land alone has so much proof of God's existence it blew me away! To be honest, at that point I was very doubtful of God's existence due to personal struggles, so I decided that if Israel didn't provide me with the proof I wanted I was going to be done with believing in God for good. God obviously had other plans for me So I went to Israel and I promise you there is so much proof of the bible's truth in that land, and the bible being truth is proof that God is real (proof through Jesus).

For example: The bible talks about a man by the name of Pontius Pilate being the man who sentenced Jesus Christ to be put on the cross (for he was the governor of Judea at the time) His name is mentioned in all four of the gospels (the four books of the bible in the New Testament that talk about Jesus' life on earth: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) but other than the bible there has been no tangible evidence of Pilate's existence...until now. A tablet was found in the city of Caesarea (which I saw with my own eyes and do in fact have pictures of) that had Pontius Pliate's name carved into it in Latin. It said: "Pontius Pilate, the prefect of Judaea, erected a building dedicated to the emporer of Tiberius." This was speaking of a building that he had built and dedicated to the emporer of Tiberius. The point is: this proves that Pontius Pilate existed, which is one of many things proving the bible's truth, which means that God IS real! How does the bible being true point to God being real? Because it says in the bible that God is real, and if the bible is true, then it must mean that God is real!

If you really are interested in considering the possibility of God's existence then please listen to what I said. Do research on it on your own to see if what I've told you is true, dig deeper into it. Go to Israel if you get the chance! Don't just take my word for it, go for it yourself. But if all you want is to debate with me then we aren't going to get anywhere because I stand firm in my belief no matter what you tell me, I'm just trying to show you why I stand where I stand. But if all you want to do is prove me wrong and debate with me back-and-forth about this then we aren't going to get anywhere making the absolutely pointless! There is a difference between discussions and debates: Discussion means that someone actually is curious and wants to learn something from it while debating is just two stubborn people arguing there point back-and-forth knowing that they won't be able to convince the other person anyways. So tell me, what is the point in debating if neither of us will get anything from it?

And I will read that book you recommended to me.

May God bless you whether you believe in Him or not.

1. The bible is "true" because the bible says so. By this logic, i could say that i am the new jesus, and you wouldnt have any less reason to believe me than to believe in teh bible.

2. just because the bible mentions a name and the name happens to be on a stone or w/e its on, isnt proof that the bible is right. If i wrote a book saying that bananas are nutricious, and pigs can fly, it doesnt mean that pigs can fly.

3. i actually recal that you started the debate. i think your exact words were, "I thought it'd be cool to create a place to debate different religions and stuff like that." and so on. I do feel that i am getting something out of this debate. I am getting new ideas about religion, and i hope you are too. I am considering what you are saying, but i just happen to be able to prove it all to be flawed. If anyone should be getting something out of this, it should be you. you havnt, yet, said anything to disprove my belifs, even though the burden of proof is on you. Your faith makes extreme claims with no proof, and if you want to know why i dont believe what you believe, then i may as well ask you why you dont believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

have a nice day
-samuelrj

Sam, you don't mind if I call you Sam do you? Anyway, you seem like a rather intelligent person, I am kind of wondering what kind of atheist you are? are you a secular humanist or are you into metaphysics or are you just a plain old fashioned atheist? I guess my point is, how do you explain the fact that we are here? Do you believe in the big bang sea of quarks or the microfiber theory or the single electron theory, (please say you're not into the single electron theory) or does the world simply exist inside our minds? Is our universe a subunit of another universe or do you onto multiple universes or the quantum model of the universe? Do you believe in a higher power or universal harmony or humanism? I guess what I'm saying is, what do you believe in, how do you believe we came into being, and what reason do any of us have to live? As atheists, we will disbelieve in God but you have not made any indication as to what you do believe in. It's hard to listen to you attack someone about faith when you have not actually said what you believe in, you have offered no acceptable proof as to why any of us exist.

Anointed Minstrel: Or AM As I will call you, why do you say that the atomic structure is proof that God exists, people said that the sun rose and fell because of God, we now know that the sun can rise and fall on it's own without any direct input from a celestial being. This is one reason, although atheists are just as guilty of inhibiting the advance of science so don't take it personally, but this is one of the things that stalls science, the reason electrons don't crash into the nucleus can not be explained by classical physics, only by quantum mechanics. In a nut shell, atoms farther from the nucleus have greater potential energy, atoms closer to the nucleus have greater kinetic energy, according to Heisenberg's principal. As the electron gets closer to the proton the kinetic energy rises faster than the potential energy falls and the electron has a net gain in energy, this is impossible because of the laws of thermodynamics so the electron is content to stay away from the atom because it can not release the the specific required amount of energy hence the term quantum or quantitative, a set amount. It is not energetically favorable for an atom to collapse so it does not. Now under the extreme pressure and heat where there is energy to spare, such as in a super nova, an atom will collapse and the electrons and protons will form, you guessed it, neutrons which have greater mass than the proton and electron combined, this is due to Einsteins theory of relativity. This model is mostly only needed for Hydrogen because in cases of multiple electrons the opposing force from the other electrons is enough to keep them out of the nucleus. Now this is very simplified old fashioned quantum mechanics, to tell you the truth, I have a hard time understanding the new stuff. If you are interested in perusing quantum mechanics there are plenty of books and web sites you can use.

Have a nice day, and God bless you.

i believe in whatever provides me the most proof, or any proof for that matter. I believe that there are some seemingly unanswerable question, but we will find answers at one time or another.

I am a pastafarian, to put it simply. But i hope that you realize that we are all atheists. Athiest simply means that you dont believe in a god. Everyone doesnt believe in a certain god. For example, i would bet that "AM" doesnt believe in allah or the FSM (flying spaghetti monster).

As for the meaning of life, i believe that we all have a different perspective on the meaning of life for ourselves. It all depends on what matters to you most. Whatever you live for is your meaning of life.

btw, call me sam, or samuel or samuelrj. w/e. It doesnt matter. My name isnt who i am. My thoughts are who i am.

Wow! I am so exited about where this debate is going!!!! VIP seems to be the only actual scientist here. I was really impressed with your last post VIP. You all have a very good point. Please, keep it up. I am really enjoying reading this. Ok, a few things to think about...

Recently, here in colorado, a mule was born. How to mules get born? With a horse and a donkey. Big deal? Yes, the mule was born from another mule. This is the second time that has happened in human history. Hannah: Could this be the birth of a new species, and if it is, doesn't it back up the theory of evolution?


Ok, according to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions. Where did this matter come from? Where did the little sand grain of gazzilion-trillion-billion-google tons origionate from? And even thought time is an element, time cant exist without matter, it had to begin somewhere no matter what way you look at it. And even if the theory of multiple universes is true, they all had to come from somewhere....

Look foward to hearing some more of your input.

Ok Sam, you totally dodged my question so I will restate it. How do you explain the fact that we are here? How do you even know that we are here, how do you know that you and I are not just pieces of a larger being? Now I would like to take a look at one of the statements you made, that we are all atheists. That is "bogus" if you will, atheism is the denial of God, any and all gods, that means that you are saying, there is not god, not, I don't believe in that God, (capital G as opposed to lower case g) Another important thought that I neglected to mention in my last post is this, do you believe in a non material world? A world that exists not of matter, energy, time or spaghetti monsters? This is a very important part of most religions, do we have spirits and are we more than the sum of our chemicals?

Also, are there beings that exist only in this spiritual world, (ghosts, spirits unnamed entities of a generally scary sort?)

Also, biological evolution, you said that if an antibiotic kills %99.9 of all bacteria and that only leaves %0.1 of the rest than the rest evolves let me ask you this. If I invent a weapon that kills all cats leaving only dogs, will the dogs evolve? Hmm, food for thought. An organism does not pass mutations on to its offspring, there is a type of "in species evolution" or "micro evolution" that occurs because of dominate and recessive genes.

Sorry got to go, I'll finish this post later.